PS Power Books • Forum

This is plot logic not theoretical Physics. If the multiverse is truly infinite It is too big to affect. No conclusion possible.

So, there is a limited number of them and they tend to snap together if they ain't different enough.

Far enough out in space where nobody is doing anything or watching too closely they have all snapped together. If the sentient beings are planet bound then so is the 'verse.

Think of the multiverse as rubber with some, perhaps all, owing their existence to a "God" who is forcing a difference.
In the Demonverse God does seem rather protective of the demons and clearly believes he needs them to hold on to his universe. In the Infected 'verse a single vastly intelligent being is responsible for the infection - and fights any attempt to remove powers. That must be how he holds his universe from merging back.

Then there is the adversaries attempts. A 'verse with no population looses its identity. If the plan is to bring back ancient gods then the fewer 'verses stretching the rubber, the easier it is for them to squeeze in one of their own. This also explains the Adversaries lack of overall co-ordination. If they did things the same way then the groups in different 'verses would snap together.

In fact it follows that the Adversaries HAVE spit off a 'verse - The mirror to the Young Ancients 'verse where some have been convinced that killing as many as possible is the right thing to do. I would guess that was why they lost out in the first place. Ultimately sufficient evil leave a 'verse with not a lot of character. One trashed wasteland is much like another while evil slave owners don't encourage individual expression. Still - maybe they have worked out that evil won't do a 'verse damage if it's exported.

So my main points. 'verses are mostly planetary or solar system size (with presumable other 'verses based around occupied planets of other stars), It takes a God real work to split one off and keep it discreet, and there are not a lot of them - Tens or Hundreds at most.

Much of that is the way that I'm thinking of it. The one exception is the summed up last point.

Universes are universe size. There are other things out there and not all intelligence will be "alive". (Unless you are in a tinyverse, of course, but those are clearly special.)

Though I do here that tinyverses are easier to heat and cool. It's a size thing.

I can't see how they can be universe sized for two reasons.

1) Without something to to hold them apart they merge together - but they do so naturally all the time - hence places where ordinary beings can walk from one to another. They can merge piecemeal which argues for elasticity.

Once you get far enough away from the purely planitary bound forces that hold them apart then why won't they bend and merge?

2) The universe is mind bogglingly vast. 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars. Given that there one type of Aliens within local space it follows that the universe as a whole must have countless billions of inteligent spiecies. How could it be that merging could depend on only local action? You would have go back to 1960's SF logic - none of them count but us. Even if we postulate that they all share a single god per universe - and I can't see a way out of it - then it still puts down any actions of a single solar system based spiecies as trivial. We would have to join forces with at least a quorum. You could work out a plot but I rather suspect that after the first billion or so it gets difficult to keep the readers attention.

1) That just means infinite is bigger than you're thinking. That means there are trillions of trillions of universes that are similar elsewhere, and on Earth. All it does is make it more complicated. A decision splits off a universe, but it does so on another planet as well, and that difference on another planet stops the realities from merging, even if the two Earths are identical the rest of the universe isn't. Infinite means infinite.

That goes two ways, so it also means there are trillions of realities where everywhere except earth is the same, and that's when realities can collapse and merge by an action on our one planet.

It is mind boggling, just taking Earth into account, so just kick it up to another level of mind-boggling. That the universe is vast is a simple truth, how could other realities just be solar system sized? That makes no sense, and is just a way to try and make it understandable.

that said, it's also fiction. So... it is whatever Dale says it is. Don't make him take his universes and go home.

There are different variations on the many worlds viewpoint. One of them presents that the universe might be made up of different sectors that might even have different physical laws. There would be some type of border between the various sectors. The point is that a sector could be the size of a solar system or a galactic super-cluster. I don't necessarily believe in this, but its another argument to consider.

But how would that work? Say two realities collapsed into one? The solar system would have to be connected to two other sectors in two realities at the same time. Unless Sol simply disappeared from one of them?

In short, the sectors are still all connected in the same universe, so that’s a major fail in logic.

Same way reversed, if Earths sector doubled from a divergence, would two be connected to the same one version of all the other sectors?

Sorry, that theory needs to heve lunch with the flat earther movement.

David. Fiction indeed. In the end Dale will write his books any way he wants. However consider the nature of this forum. Dale has specifically opened it for speculation and I do believe that he hopes to benifit from it. I am NOT attempting to stop him writing and if he can draw a satisfactory conclusion to the series with universe sized 'verses then I will be excited to read it. Just because I can't see one doesn't mean he is so limited - and frankly I wouldn't read his books if he wasn't cleverer than me.

If we were arguing physics rather than plot I would have to agree that a multiverse would contain full universes. Furthermore I would put money on it being the truth. Building this universe from matter strikes me as odd as all the evidence says it can't be created without an equal quantity of anti-matter. There had to be another universe to put the missing anti-matter in. And if there are two then why stop there? Where I would draw the line would be at mutiverse travel. Great SF but doubtful physics. Looks to me that other than the 4 dimensions we deal with, our universe exists as a particle. Interaction can only be with the universe as a whole by - IE such acts as creating, destroying or changing the laws or contents of the universe as a unit. Not that any of those would be new plots. The universe as a particle is an old plot too.

Ok...... moving on. Its looking like a limited number of 'verses each with a resident god fighting to hold it seperate. Add to the mix a bunch of old time loosers who want back in the game and ain't particularly woried 'bout the means.

So does that mean that among gods there are the good guys and the bad guys? Could be that if the world is Dog eat Dog, the multiverse is God eat God. Are we sure that the terorists based on the Demonverse and attacking others ain't working for the local top guy? Could be they are all at it....although that would be a tricky plot to resolve.

Wow, sorry, was just joking about the Flat Earther thing. Also wasn't putting down Disc World, that's fiction. Dale already said a full universe was a full universe. Speculation is fine, but the sector idea is kind of unworkable unless you can imagine a scientific fact to answer my questions.

Umm, I didn't think Dale would really stop writing. Maybe my humor is just falling flat in the written word and no one got the Cartman reference.

That's an interesting theory. The only God we know about is in Other Places, and it didn't go into too many details, outside of he makes everything glow and watches Keels constantly, even in the bathroom.

It was implied he didn't interfere directly, but Michael does run around whispering in ears and all, so it's an interesting idea. Based on what we read, he doesn't interfere directly in other places, but maybe in some realities he does? Still, I thought the main guy for that part of the war was already outed, he just controlled the top people in those other realities and pushed them toward it, or at least influenced them. Is that wrong?