Mutiverse must be self limiting

[Blame]

Ahh There is also a god mentioned in Shine.....or at leat a single inteligence responsible for all the infected. Plus Dale has sort of confirmed in this thread that I ain't that far off.

The idea of 'verses being not seriously bigger than star system sized is consistent with the plot so far for reasons I have already given. Not with Physics but who cares? It's not consistent with Dale's plans for future books but that is a different matter. Besides 'till they are written they are certainly not written in concrete.

If you are to going to dismiss them on Physics you have to do so with Dale's version of Physics as revealed in his books so far. Just like you can't diss Disc World as just plain silly. I mean it is, but who cares?

I maintain that:

a) You can't dismiss small 'verse's on plot grounds. Aliens have traveled between worlds but there is absolutly no reason to believe that they arrived in the same 'verse they left from. Mars is clearly part of some 'verses but that just means they stretch to fit. Or maybe they just stretch till they border another 'verse's teritory in the same universe. Plot wise ether would do.

b) It is cosistent with the Physics as so far revealed - Keely created a pocket sized one so they CAN be small. There are places where they naturally merge and ordinary beings can walk across so its not a great stretch to make all of deep space such a place.

c) It make it so much easier to end the series with a satisfying conclusion. The bigger the multiverse the less easy to it is to believe that Dale's heros contributed significantly to the outcome.

[David]

1) I wasn't dismissing it on plot grounds. I was dismissing it on the grounds he said so, in this very thread, that realities were universe sized. I suppose he could change his mind, but since the major arc for the crossover stuff and reality war is done, I don't see why he would. It's easier to understand as whole universes anyway, and quite complicated enough.

2) Keeley created a pocket sized dimension, not a separate reality. But I'll agree it isn't inconsistent with what's in the books as far as natural overlaps where people can walk. That's the most convincing argument you've made in my opinion.

3) They contributed significantly to the outcome of that one battle of the war, not the war in its entirety. I believe it was mentioned that the whole destroy all realities things happens again and again throughout time. Big war, and they won their battle, or at least came to a draw and the other side gave up. Not sure it would be at all easy to make it a definitive thing at this point. Point being, they made their realities safe, which isn't a small thing. When dealing with the infinite, it would be impossible to make something definitive, regardless, I found the ending satisfying.

[Blame]

Destroy all Reality?

Well There is the Sugestion that time is cyclic but, given time travel and fairly flexable rules to dimenion behavour, there is no great reason why it need repeat the same way each time. Like 'Verse's - It might be stuck in a bit of a rut but push hard enough and you can get it moving in a new direction. That would be a desisive outcome.

Pluss - Who told you it all gets destroyed ? Thinking back through the books (I haven't read them all) and I can't remember a source who wasn't ether a bad guy or a Trickster. I call bullshit.

In fact that is much my premise. That the whole thing boils down to gods fighting for position. If there are only a limited number of 'verses then a desisive win is possible.

Don't get too upset about the small 'verse idea. So far it would have no effect on any of the books I have read. As Dale is not a fan he presumably intends to make use of full universes in future books or in some way nullify my objections. If not it will take about a paragraph in some future book.

[that would be me]

One answer to the problems with universe size and rules as to their existence could be this, without getting all sciency and stuff.

How did/do the "Line Walkers" become "Line Walkers" ?
What/When was/were the "universal", (see what I did there?), constant with each "Line Walker" creation?
How are/were the "Rules and Limits" defined?
We all ready know/knew. (ok that one may be a little much)
The author has made it plain many "TIMES".
Get the hint?
All of the "Verses" are/were separated by time. Even down to possibly the most "infinitesimal", (Dang! did it again) difference.
Time is/was the answer.

Don't look at me that way. How else could it work? We are talking quantum mechanics here on a "Universal scale, here right?. (Whoot! I'm on a roll!)

I'll be rollin' along now...heh, I crack myself up, heh.

[Blame]

Well far out man.

I don't really see it but its an idea to play with.

Something like this.....

Time is Cyclic and there is only one universe and only one god. But that god gets bored so each time round he tries doing it differently - So the line walkers are not dimension hopping - they are time traveling big time. Very big time.

[MasterfulZora]

Another way to see it is that the gods (because to me it seems more like there are many, not one that tries other things) were the first/main form of organised energy that seeks to both exist for as long and as comfortably as possible (basically the first ‘life’ just not the way we often perceive it).
These gods likely began as one, but they reproduce asexually and at random when the energy moves in an inconvenient manner, resulting in a fractionally differentiating ‘self’ that (because of them both wanting to stay un-merged) results in one of the ‘selfs’ using some energy to cause an event to happen two different ways simultaneously in order to cause another reality to exist temporarily.
This new god then exponentially changes compared to its parent and proceeds to run its reality differently, first to keep it separate, then just because that’s how it needs to be run.

The interesting part about the realities is their different time-rates, but that isn’t too surprising as flexing time slightly is the easiest and most energy efficient way for a god to make a reality shear so that another exists, and if you flex time, there is inevitably going to be some lasting distortion. This rather helpfully helps keep the reality seperate, which is why it’s so efficient, and why it gets used so often.

[David]

Hmm, the farther apart the realities, the greater the time difference. That much we do know, the rest of my theory is speculation. That point we do know suggests the time difference is not artificial. I've always thought about it like the realities are layered and wrapped around each other, like an onion, sort of. I've always thought of the time skewing as a natural part of the multi-verse, rather than something that is artificially created.

The larger the onion layer so to speak, the faster time moves in that reality, and the further away it is from the core, which is that tree place Zack took Keeley for their date, sex session, and fight to the death.

[Blame]

[MarciaA]

I enjoy all of you debating this. Interesting opinions and theories.

[David]

It was stated many times in the books that YA is much farther away from other and alternate realities than the other ones, and those guys are moving a lot faster. It was also stated that AI guy who was in charge of the war was a lot further than even that, and in that reality a few minutes translated to months.

So... yeah, that's my proof. Granted, it is circumstantial proof, but it's how I see it, and it isn't inconsistent with the books at all. The farther Will travelled, the slower the universe moved in comparison to his own. It's why he'd disappear months at a time, when simply being gone hours or a day or two delivering a few letters.