Discussing Sexual Themes Between K.T. and Other Places

[Shadowstep]

(Board Admins, please forgive me and delete if this is inappropriate here).

As I read the Keeleyverse and Other Places books this weekend, I was struck by the distinct differences between sexual expression in the two related series. Both seem a little bit tame given the situations - that is to say, very explicit content is referenced in both, and is a huge underpinning theme with many of Zack's relationships, but there is curiously not much sex depicted in the Other Places books (given everything else) and none in the Keeley Thompson books. It's an unusual and interesting (well, to my mind anyway) split for discussion.

Why are sexual themes so prevalent in both series, but limited sex in one and none in the other?

[Ronald Dukarski]

This is only my opinion, but about the time the Keeleyverse originated, the author had some negative comments concerning sexual depictions in some of his work in the "Young Ancients" series. It really impacted his work. Dale is sensitive to his readers and probably decided to censor his writing to maintain a more wholesome, family-friendly context. His writing hasn't suffered to any degree, just not quite as adult oriented. Incidentally, he has suggested he may be publishing a "Young Ancients" novella dedicated to the naughty countess Maria which promises to be heavily erotic and very adult.

[David]

That may be part of it, another part is Keeley was written in the Young adult style, (shorter, no explicit sex.) as opposed to the full size adult book type for other places.

Remember Keeley, or at least the first two, were written before all the whiners got after him with the content in young ancients.

[Mark]

Those are both the points I was going to raise.

I still think it's great that of all Dale's characters the one with anything near a wholesome romantic relationship is the ruthless amoral demoness. (Even if she won't admit it).

[David]

Oh, I don't know, Brian is doing good in that arena. (Wholesome and Romantic). Even if she is from another dimension.

[Shadowstep]

Interesting - I have not read the Young Ancients series, so I cannot compare the two. It just intrigued me that there is no direct mention of Keeley doing anything with anyone (except in Detours) - not even a kiss IIRC outside of the one with Haley.

And I don't mean it to sound as either a prude or perv - there's just a curious absence of any real attraction by Keeley it seems. Her relationship with Haley was more a calculated business decision than a romantic one, as it was portrayed. Not a critique - just an interested observation. I guess she's a counterpoint to Darla and Xenses both in that way - Xenses's pathological sexuality and Darla's casual views.

[David]

If you read carefully you can pick up the hints, she absolutely does like Hally. Just the little remarks she makes to herself in her own head makes it pretty clear.

But yeah, like I said before, Keeley was written in a young adult style, I am not surprised all sex was off camera so to speak. Of course it's just a guess, only Dale can tell us why he did it for sure.

Another possible reason would be underage sex thing. Got me though, maybe Dale will chime in on his reasoning?


Oh, and Brian is from infected, not YA.

[Ronald Dukarski]

I really don't know how this fits into this discussion, but one of Dale' s magic bullets in this series was a demon' s ability to feel only what they decided to feel. It took practice but Keeley decided to feel as she did about Hally. And then, how she didn't. Perhaps she decided not to feel anything during her crucible, since it took all her concentration.

[bitflipper]

One thing I noticed in the Keeley-verse is that each book is related in a style that reflects the personality of the main character. They're not told from the main character's viewpoint; all the books are in third-person, after all. But, Keeley's books reflect her late adolescence, her somewhat bookish attitude, and her somewhat reserved and slightly suspicious nature. Zack's books, though, depict the world and events as if being seen by a young man in his early twenties -- a man who's had to cope with a fractured mind and who's doing the best he can to simply deal with a life he doesn't really understand; his unworldliness, interest in women, and simple acceptance of the bizarre, all shine through. Eve's books, on the other hand, are loaded with energy, a bit of pugnaciousness, and a deep steel-hard core of determination that refuses to bow under to adversity. That ability to reflect the main character's personality in the telling of the story is one of the things that marks P.S.Power as an excellent story-teller.

[Kat]

What is fascinating in my opinion is that Keeley and Timon have many things in common - among other things, they're both suspicious and great at plotting and seeing through other's plots, have little remorse while staying rather friendly for the most part (despite a habit of using people, not that they dislike those people, but still...) and they don't think like, for example, Zack, who often has thoughts about having sex with some person or other or at least notices things such as chest size and clothes. They're like opposites that way, both driven by the rational mind while Zack and some other chars are more instinctually driven on some level.
So they consider different things important to a story.

Or to make another example: in YA Tor walks into rooms finding people in interesting situations rather often and we're told about it. Now what are the odds that this almost never happens to Timon? In those books it's rarely mentioned when he notices that people disappeared together to do it or that he runs into them by coincidence.
If you add the fact that people order the world around themselves if they're builders and the nearly prophetic things Tor does sometimes you have to come to the conclusion that, on some level, Tor is drawn to the places where those he loves are having sex at the time.

So the POV has huge influence on what we're told, not to mention the fact that the POVs are all, on some level, unreliable. They misunderstand stuff and get to see totally different sides of chars.
Like in the beginning Keeley meets the cheerleaders who, frankly, don't seem to make any sense at all by normal modern standards, unlike the apparently typical football guys - and Keeley is understandably somewhat puzzled.
Later, when Zack meets these girls, he doesn't even really notice jost how strange these Cheerleaders have become in the meantime, just describing what they're doing with some level of approval, but without acknowledging the fact that normal Cheerleaders are not capable of abusing Lesser Demon's crushes, for example. That weirdness is submerged while Keeley immediately tries to puzzle such things out and really notices when someone is out of the ordinary.