Cheat questions -- SPOILERS

[Ronald Dukarski]

I know, but sometimes wishful thinking...does nothing but reinforce negative thoughts. Oh well.

[RyanM]

[PS Power]

Really? Think about it: If men stop supporting them, all of that goes away, instantly. We don't need new laws to stop it either, just common sense. The "power" they have is that of nagging. It might work, but eventually everyone gets fed up. A lion eats you, like it or not.

Feminists have to try and get the lions to come in to punish you, which isn't the same thing.

[RyanM]

That's just it though, any many cases you CAN'T simply stop supporting them.

If you're married and get divorced you face court-ordered alimony.
Regardless of marital status, if you have kids you'll have court-ordered child support; the amounts of which are far more than simple child support. Hell, there have been cases were a guy was simply dating a woman with kids and is then forced to pay child support despite not being the biological father.

[PS Power]

Yes, that's all true. The thing there is I think the difference between men's rights (which is going to fail, due to the cultural and biological forces involved cannot work in the long run, since even men are predisposed to siding with women in most things, and so are women, allowing for the power imbalance that we have that women can't really understand as being there...) and MGTOW.

Men going their own way can, if they time things right (aren't in a child trap, aren't committed to a long term relationship, refuse to allow themselves to be set up to care for other people against their will) can manage to step from that system, and remove their support for abusive systems.

For now.

In the end, if enough men do that, then something else will give. First there will be a population panic however. (See modern Japan for examples) Even though we've vastly over-populated the planet, and are on the verge of extending life spans to near infinite (well hundreds of years) proportions people are already pointing at Mgtow and claiming that it will be the end of the world, as if social pressures won't shift back far before we reach that point?

Still, it's important to realize that women aren't bad. They are what they are, just like men. Pointing at men and saying "all you care about is sex!" and demonizing them for it isn't helpful, but neither is pointing at women and saying "all you care about is financial and physical security, at the expense of men!". Neither group has real control over that portion of their beings, and for the most part, neither thinks of that aspect of self as being bad.

Each is a problem, too.

Uncontrolled lust and religious practices that have produced unneeded children have directly lead to having billions more people than is safe or healthy for the planet.

Uncontrolled desire for wealth from women has set us on the path to destruction as well.

*For the ladies: Men generally seek great wealth to get women. They honestly don't car about having five hundred dollar shoes or even that fancy care, outside of that. Take that drive away and they will do a lot less of that.

These factors are so fundamental however that I don't think we can easily change them. Even pointing them out is a risk right now, opening a person up for attack. I just can't sit back and allow lies to be told at the end of the world.

It's why I'm going my own way in life though. Not adding to the problems more than I have too. I think that as many men as possible should look into this, since it's the easiest point at which we can break the old system.

Don't think for a minute that it will be without cost. Not just personally either. As soon as a threshold number becomes apparent (30% of men not seeking relationships or allowing themselves to be used as a step upward for a woman and her kids) (That number is a guess) then the government will have to seek to enslave them in another way. Probably with some kind of tax that only applies to the upkeep of women and children, even though traditionally that cost would go only to the father of the child.


Men have been used for their labor, and controlled using biological forces for all of history. This used to be well known, but the advent of feminism allowed that information to be hidden away form popular view. Large parts of this are due to nature however, and not a complicated plot on anyone's part. So casting blame right now won't help. Removing yourself as a piece from the board may not either. (Mgtow) I just can't see anything else working for the time being, even on the personal level.

[PS Power]

I think that I need to back off the treatment of Feminism in the current books. I was thinking about it, and even though what I wrote is actually directly taken from real life examples (and not the bad ones! No calls for all men to die or be castrated, or talk of male tears as a pleasant drink in the morning...) I don't think that feminists will see it as fair treatment. Now, I probably couldn't write a lot of groups in the way that they think they should be treated, but I don't want to heap abuse on anyone.

Thoughts on this? Kindness or honesty? Which is better? (Can both be used at the same time? I try, but sometimes fail on that one.)

[Ronald Dukarski]

As in the real world, if a group were to become over zealous, the reason behind it may be obscured by the leader or core group not sharing their true motivation with the movement as a whole. And perhaps, that leader, or core group, May have an actual and logical reason for feeling the way they do, but are being used for the selfish and nefarious reason of someone else. I'm sure not all feminists are feminazis. And I'm sure some are justified for feeling like a second class citizen. But taken as a whole, sufficient numbers are quite intimidating. (I was so ready to bring up the conservative right as an example of how an aggressive leadership could bring many followers to work against their own best interests but I figured, Naw, let's not open that can of worms.)

[David]

I couldn't really say unless I read it. But even if it just has the "part of the story flavor" and not the "author has a political bone to pick or hates woman vibe", some people will still take offense. It's part of it though, a small part of the population will always take offense at the smallest thing. If some people don't hate you, you're doing it wrong...

That said, I guess I'd ask myself, if I were you, is it necessary to the story and does it forward the plot and/or character development, or even world building. If not it can probably go.

Regardless of all that, if you feel it might generate more hit reviews from a group not known for logical and thoughtful discourse, I'd axe it.

[PS Power]

It's a pretty big part of the story. So...

Yeah.

Then again, I don't want to not say what I think, just because I might be attacked over it. That isn't to excuse being a bad person, however.

The line there is for me, not others. Nothing I wrote is wrong. I just don't think the world is made better by fighting about everything in the world, all the time.

[MarciaA]

Sorry Dale, was feeling playful so edited your post and added the smilies.