Height Comparisons [SPOILERS]

[rockhazard]

All true, of course. But I guess I was really referring Brown and Green. It goes to the point that they managed to survive everything, despite being slave line. That doesn't mean stupid at all, but given how smitten they were with Julie, and therefore how vulnerable they'd be to Doris, it would figure they wouldn't have made it. Especially given how controlling some of the other can be (like Gray, who was able to control others in a way analogous to Julie). Being snake charmed can't be a recipe for independence, especially when you don't seem averse to having it happen again once the effect fades.

[David]

Why should they be killed?

Julie and Doris could manipulate them, and command them to a certain extent. Why toss away a good sharp tool? Neither Brown or Green were a threat to them.

Plus, Julie may have been command line, but she was also a pacifist. All of Soam seem to be that way, their flght and flight response was heavily shifted toward flight. Not sure how Doris fits in with that, but she seems weighted toward nudging things from behind the scene, and if she got rid of green who would have watched over Noram and the nobles? She'd have had to do it herself.

No, they made good tools, you don't throw your tools away like that. Just saying. They were all designed to preserve humanity, not destroy it or each other. They had rules, and they followed them.

[OBRIB01]

Sure, they have rules, followed them, and even as a group enforced them - but that doesn't mean that they couldn't twist things in their minds to make the rules say what they want them to. That's how Cordes and Green broke Noram in the first place, after all. People in general build up justifications for their actions, and if you add crazy to that it's WAY worse.
All that said, though, I absolutely agree that there'd be no reason to kill them, and every reason to use them to move things in the direction you want things to go.

[rockhazard]

I didn't say anything about killing them, so much as them simply not surviving. Remember that there were many ancients, and only a few of them survived. Out of the mix of survivors most were not slave line. They seem to be heavy in warrior and command. Tor was the only slave line we know of in the new batch of ancients; the others are more assertive (command, warrior, or some modification thereof). I'm inclined to think Doris and/or Gray did that for a reason. I can see being easily manipulated as a poor survival trait, even if your commanders aren't looking to throw you to the wolves much. Three thousand years is a long time, after all.

[David]

Oh.

Well that's different. But was addressed in the books. Most of the command line people died because they went insane and had to be put down.

The slave line actually had a better chance that way, because they were programmed with a strong work ethic and to be happy about it. They didn't really get a choice to be to depressed about things or give up.

Which means, Tor probably won't last as long as green, since he modified himself not to be a slave.

[OBRIB01]

David's point about survival chances makes me wonder about the new Ancients - who's going to have the best long-term survival chances, and why? Who's going to go first?
I'm kind of leaning towards the new guy, Will, having the best chance of long-term survival. Since his emotions are the way they are - turned down, fade pretty fast, even having some missing altogether (can't fall in love with someone, for example) I can't help thinking he's going to be able to avoid most of the problems. He's still GOT emotions, so it isn't like he's a robot or anything, which will keep him in touch with people, but I don't think he'd be as damaged by bad things happening in his life. Honestly, the biggest thing I can think of that might be a problem for him is boredom because of his giant brain. But on the other hand, he's got an infinite number of realities to find something to do in. That's got to help.
For being the first to kick the bucket, I'm kind of leaning towards Taman or Tiera. Tam's lonely and depressed already, and she's only like, what, 18? 20? She's spent most of her life knowing she's in charge of a CONTINENT, one that's really messed up and her people are dying. I can't imagine that won't break a person a bit.
Tiera's in charge of the moon, but she seems super stressed out all the time and can't seem to delegate. With her being a murder machine anyway, when she snaps she's going to plow through her subjects and need to be taken down. She might avoid that by quitting the queen business, finding someone better at it, and just being the moon's Ancient, but even if she does, that's just going to avoid THIS problem, not fix her flaws.
Opinions? Other ideas?

[rockhazard]

[David]

Possibly Dare, since not only is he command line, but he lives hours for minutes. that's got to speed things up.

I agree with the Tiera thing as well. Maybe Taman and Tiera just need a partner to settle down, they're both pretty much alone which has to exasperate the issue.

It's also possible none of them will fail, because if someone starts going nuts, Tor, Taman, or Timon can just tweak them on the fly and fix it. Genetic manipulation wasn't something the old ancients messed with as far as for themselves. Even when green worked on a replacement, he made an exact copy rather than fix his own flaws in the next generation.

[qHnED7SnYgQs]

[David]

Perhaps, it's been pointed out multiple times that although void time counts, it's different and not quite the same as living physically for a thousand years. No physical sensations, all that.

Also, Dare didn't get the void training, did he? I thought he figure out his own way on his own, by building the quantum teleport huts...

I could be confused, or wrong, but I don't think Dare did spend a whole lot of time in the void.