Cheat questions -- SPOILERS

[RyanM]

I feel ya man. I'm 37 and I STILL get my parents riding my ass about getting married and having kids. They refused (or maybe just can't understand) that I don't WANT such things due to the high risk involved. But when statistics say that you're likely to end up divorced within 5 years and taken to the cleaners in the process, it's just not worth it.

The kicker is that you can't even count on a prenuptial agreement to mitigate potential losses anymore. There are cases where judges have overruled the prenups in favor of the woman.

[PS Power]

That's all true. I think the trick is to make certain that a life is lived well, if not traditionally. We know what counts as success for a man in that realm. You have a wife, and kids, buy a house and work as hard as you can for others, without having your wife take off with most of what you own at any point. Hopefully the kids will be yours.

That's traditional success, as filtered through the modern world.

If you're going your own way, there still needs to be some way to measure being successful though. It can be in your hobbies or career, or even in helping others, as you choose to do it. maybe even other things that I'm missing. (My thoughts that way still tend to skew toward what society has always told me is the "right" thing to do. So I focus on career a lot. More than most, actually.)

Men, even going their own way, tend to be doers, rather than just sitting back and waiting for things to change, I think.

[ArgyrosfeniX]

[PS Power]

I do think that men need some kind of work, or focus to their life. In the absence of a family, which men don't really have a biological desire to have. (Women often seem to. Men enjoy the trappings, but it seems a socialized thing, rather than biology forcing them to the task. If that was the case, no men would ever cheat or stray, no matter how hard things got.)

This doesn't mean that can't be important or a goal for some men, just that it's a thing they choose or learn, rather than being inborn.

Regardless of where men are however, there is a trend which has the best of them working hard to get things done. I'm actually trying to promote that idea. (For women too, by the way. I do like seeing people doing their best, and being successful because of it.)

I also think that modern marriage, even separated from the new laws, isn't a natural human bonding system. It's an artificial construct designed to help women, and care for their children. (About 1-6 children that a man thinks are his isn't. That's a lot...) historically, there was no real way to tell reliably. Now that there is, things are shaking out to be a lot different than we might have thought even fifty years ago. Men don't need, or even mainly like, marriage. This doesn't mean that it can't be good, but it generally isn't. Women seem to dislike it as well. (Most divorces are asked for by the wife, and the most common reason is general dissatisfaction, rather than having a good reason. And yes, I'm saying that if you sign on to be married, getting bored isn't a good enough reason to dissolve it.)

Given this, I don't really think that men have a biological need that isn't being taken care of if they don't marry or have relationships in particular. this may eventually turnout to be wrong, but so far I think that keeping busy is a part of the male mind, but separate from relationship status. It's just that when you are free from that kind of thing you have more time to do what interests you, instead of carrying for your family and wife first and foremost in all things. (Though if you ARE married, then you should give those things your all. You signed a contract and took a vow. Live it. Do your very best in it.)

Now... I don't even know if that was relevant!

[Ronald Dukarski]

Going back to your question, Argy, I think a man who is a doer merely has more time on his hands and fewer responsibilities that would prevent him from doing what he wants. A man, or person, who is tied down to an extended family isn't likely to go off questing a job he or she loves. More than likely, they will settle for the first good paying job they find. If they don't enjoy the work, they will soon stagnate, and become just another cog in the machine. Bored. Dissatisfied. Unhappy.

To go into the psychology of it, well, just a pet theory, men are built externally (sexually) most of their responses are to external stimuli. Visual, (which is why porn is doing so well) tactile, which is why Mason in Cheat was so satisfied with his VR. Smell, which is why some guys think beer farts are so hilarious.

Women on the other hand, are built internally, so their responses are triggered by internal(emotional) stimuli. The "mothering" instinct, the so called biological clock. The nesting reaction.

That isn't to say these are all so clearly defined or exclusive to each gender. Just generally.

I'd talk about my own life but that would be just too much information. Suffice it to say I'm contentedly married and my wife is my best frienemy.

[David]

It's a society against nature thing. There really is nothing to do for it. But the government really only makes it all worse and exasperates the problems.


I think Ronald has it right for the most part, but it goes deeper than that. Our drive to perpetuate the species is extremely strong, so when men stands alone and goes their own way they feel the need to make a mark on the world, to satisfy their instincts and basic nature in another manner.

By our nature we are designed to compete for a woman and get the best one we can. More than one if we can do so. I'm not speaking morally, obviously morals are important and we have the intelligence to suppress those baser instincts, but they still affect us and inform our decisions.

I won't go into my personal stuff either... Or the rest of my crazy theories that involve the opposite sex.

[PS Power]

I think that it's important to keep in mind that, as men, we should also think about what we can do to improve and understand everyone else around us. Women, but also other men. (That will sound strange to women, I bet. Men really do put them first. Almost always. It's so ingrained in society that it can be really hard for them to see, even when it's pointed out, and the numbers back it. Not for all people that happen to be female however. Just some.) By considering others, and what will work for them, we can learn to improve ourselves at the same time.

That doesn't mean that we have to give users, abusers, or horrible people our lives and the fruit of our labors without restraint.

By seeking to help everyone, you can end up helping... everyone. Helping one group, no matter how large, never seems to trickle down the way things are supposed to.

[ArgyrosfeniX]

[Ronald Dukarski]

Argy, I hope the reference to cheating being a male thing was only for purpose of example. Women cheat also, and much more than they admit. As Dale aid 1 in 6 children are not fathered by the husband in a marriage. The "mine" syndrome you propose for men works, but the "that bad boy's hot" works for women just as easily. Or "wow, he's got a nice car" or "hmmm, he's got money" Then the state exacerbates it by declaring any child produced during a marriage shall be considered fathered by the husband until PROVEN otherwise. (First marriage, personal experience) That bias you may have shown is what this is all about. Women being the weaker sex only works if you consider the average physicality. Otherwise it's total B.S. If women demand equal treatment under the law ( and I believe they deserve it) then they shouldn't expect any special treatment either.

[PS Power]

Sure, Ronald. All of that is true.

It also brings up another hard portion of things. men don't get a say in having a child, other than of course, by refusing to have sex, or a marriage. To do those things you need to either subdue or replace the rather powerful sex drive however.

Basically, only the strongest and most driven men have the ability to not engage in such relationships, if they are an option. (It's a lot easier if you don't meet any of the attractive zones for women. If you are an ugly man, who has no money, or social standing, then it won't be that hard for you. Oh, psychologically, but not in practical measure.)

My point here is that most men are driven to engage in sex, while not wanting a child to come of the union. Men however, aren't allowed to have a say in having a child, that being a privilege of the woman. (Which I agree with, as far as that goes. Someone has to have that power, and it is her body. Makes sense to me.) But that leaves men, who only wanted sex, responsible for nearly twenty years. If for some reason he has an economic downturn and can't pay child support, guess who's labeled a dead beat and sent of to jail?

It's almost certainly not the mom.

This issue is one of the reasons that I can't be an MRA. It's a tough situation, but frankly, I don't have anything to exchange the current system with, other than suggesting that men break their own minds, and learn to resist having sex with women. MGTOW, in short.

There are a lot of similar things, and some that aren't part of law, but are just social problems between the genders.